[Author Prev][Author Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Author Index][Thread Index]
Re: [ATM] Dobson
One of the reasons I did not attend his seminar at a recent NEAF
event in New York was because I was sensing a kind of geriatric
malaise that some older people suffer. The memories of his
conversation with the interviewer are suspect because of my own
failings. Still, they were taped about 14 years ago, when
susceptibility to senility was not as likely.
Frankly, I still don't care. He has had a positive effect on many
and enrolled them into a passionate exploration of the universe.
Levy does that too. Given the general lack of aliveness that so
many exhibit, that is quite an achievement and does more to
further humanity than any scientific gobbli-gook..
At a NEAF event in 2003, I spoke to Levy and I told him that of
all his accomplishments, the one I revere the most is that at his
age he still has the ability to look out into the world with the
excitement and enthusiasm of a child and of his obvious
commitment to bring his audience with him, to enroll them in the
wonder of it all.
David smiled. He beamed when he heard me say that and promised
he'd remember our meeting forever! I believe that Levy and
Dobson are more attached to their commitment to people than to
understanding the universe. If Dobson dies in a sanitarium, an
absolute drooling idiot, I will choose to remember him. not for
the geriatric rants he may be guilty of now but for the
aliveness and sense of wonder he instills in others. I couldn't
care less about his telescope or the Manhattan project. The scope
was merely an device he created as an excuse to be with people.
It's served it's purpose well but it would be a shame if that's
all people remember him for. Ditto Levy and his comets. You are
focused on and nit picking at minutia at the expense of a far
more important contribution.
Art Bianconi
> Art,
>
> Again, I very very strongly doubt that Dobson had
> anything substantive to do with the Manhattan project
> at all. By his written account, he only worked in the
> scientific field for about a year: from college
> graduation time in 1943 to May of 1944. If he told a
> different story on the TV bio, then that undermines
> his credibility (with ME, at least) even further.
>
> I do give credit to him to blasting open a number of
> great innovations in amateur telescope making. But I
> don't really think that he has anything of substance
> to offer to the debates on cosmology and the like --
> and those are the areas that he really thinks he
> excels in. I also think that his treatment of anybody
> who offers to disagree with him is extremely abusive.
> And this abusive treatment comes from someone who
> complains of an establishment conspiracy to shut out
> his views. It seems to me that those who have
> disagreed with Fred Hoyle's (and Dobson's)
> steady-state theories have been at the very least
> courteous and have given reasoned explanations for why
> they disagree. Dobson's response - or at least, the
> one that I saw at Stellafane a couple of years ago -
> was to yell "Shut up! You're an idiot!" at anybody who
> dared to disagree with him.
>
> It also seemed to me that he reveled in being
> notorious and famous. David Levy and Carolyn
> Shoemaker, who were also at Stellafane that year, by
> contrast, were down-to-earth people that you could
> have a conversation with. I thought Dobson had gone a
> bit over the edge of his rocker.
>
> Guy
>
>
>
> --- artbianconi@blast.net wrote:
>
> > Guy I am more sure of his envolvement in the
> > Manhattan Project
> > than I am of his discipline there. Most of this is
> > from a memory
> > of that TV bio and that was easily 15 years ago and
> > suspect to
> > the effects of dead brain cells and neurons with low
> > voltage.
> >
> > What gave it credibility then (and now) was that he
> > was doing the
> > talking. What he has done for and to people is what
> > matters. I
> > listened to the him as he spoke to a bunch of
> > amateur ATM's. They
> > came there to make mirrors and in the process came
> > away with some
> > remarkably enlightening insights. The rest is
> > interesting but
> > really doesn't concern me much. It's just
> > inconsistent behavior
> > with others I have known who have shared similar
> > spiritual paths.
> > It's a puzzle I loose no sleep over.
> >
> > Art
> >
> > > Are you sure he was involved in the Manhattan
> > Project?
> > > I seriously doubt that. I also don't think he
> > knows
> > > nearly as much physics as you seem to think.
> > > According to the 'Biographical Sketch of John
> > Dobson'
> > > in his book "How and Why to Build a Sidewalk
> > > Telescope", Dobson graduated from HS in 1934, and
> > went
> > > to UCalBerkeley "determined to be a biochemist for
> > the
> > > sole purpose of finding out how to keep Einstein
> > > alive." (!!!) "He felt that Einstein was the best
> > > chance to get the cosmos figured out. 'I never
> > knew
> > > I'd inherit the job.' After 2 years at Cal, he saw
> > > that the curriculum didn't suit him, so he quit in
> > the
> > > middle of a semester and stayed out for 2 years
> > "...
> > > (that's on page 2)
> > >
> > > Then he joined a dance group and grew long hair
> > (about
> > > 1937 - an early Beat or Hippie?) that did dances
> > > supporting the 1937 Longshoremen's strike in San
> > > Francisco, among other things.
> > >
> > > He then went back to UCalBerkeley for a semester
> > after
> > > a leg injury, then quit again for 2 more years,
> > and
> > > "went back again at Swami Ashokanada's suggestion
> > and
> > > graduated in chemistry and mathematics in 1943."
> > > (still all on page 2).
> > >
> > > Now, do you seriously think that somebody who had
> > just
> > > graduated from college in 1943 in chemistry and
> > math
> > > would be a central or even a peripheral figure in
> > the
> > > Manhattan Project? I doubt it.
> > >
> > > On page 3:
> > >
> > > "Swami Ashokananda sent Dobson back to UC to
> > finish.
> > > By then World War II was on, and to avoid going to
> > the
> > > Front he would need a war-related job like
> > teaching
> > > chemistry. [...] he knew that when he graduated he
> > had
> > > to have a war job the very next day. [...] He
> > > graduated in 1943. The very next day, he took a
> > job
> > > for Caltech. It was a war-work job in Berkeley and
> > was
> > > later transferred from Caltech to the University
> > of
> > > California there. it involved a great deal of
> > field
> > > work around California. When the boss of that job
> > was
> > > killed in a chemical accident, Dobson re-applied
> > at
> > > the Berkeley Radiation Lab, where he worked till
> > he
> > > joined the monastery in 1944." (page 4 now.)
> > >
> > > (May 8, 1944, it says a bit later on.)
> > >
> > > (I don't know about you, but in 1944, had I been
> > > alive, I would have been doing anything in my
> > power to
> > > defeat the Nazis and the Japanese Empire!)
> > >
> > > Also, his story of his leaving the monastery is
> > very
> > > different from the story you relate. In general,
> > most
> > > of what you wrote is very much at odds with John
> > > Dobson's own written biographical sketch of
> > himself. I
> > > wonder where you heard those stories? From John
> > > himself? Hmmmm...
> > >
> > > Guy
> > > --- artbianconi@blast.net wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dobson was NOT kicked out of the monastery for
> > > .....
> > > > Dobson is a physicist and was a key figure in
> > the
> > > > theoretical
> > > > dialogue that was taking place at the Manhattan
> > > > Project in the
> > > > early 40's and whose intent was to build the
> > first
> > > > nuclear
> > > > weapon.
> > > >
> > > > I am a little distracted by the fact that a
> > > > monastically inclined
> > > > spirit of his caliber would knowingly contribute
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > development of such a device. I am not
> > suggesting
> > > > that such
> > > > weapons are evil; I am just perplexed that a man
> > of
> > > > such
> > > > spiritual temperament would help build one.
> > > >
> > > > By contrast, Enrico Ferme was not, in public,
> > nearly
> > > > as obvious a
> > > > man of deep spiritual convictions as a Dobson.
> > Yet,
> > > > when the
> > > > first successful nuclear pile was taken critical
> > > > under his watch,
> > > > Fermi is said to have seen it's potential as a
> > > > weapon of mass
> > > > destruction. He withdrew from any further
> > > > experiments and ceased
> > > > contributing to the project. Dobson has spoken
> > > > relatively little
> > > > on his own activity during that period, choosing
> > > > instead to focus
> > > > on his first love, astronomy. Is it avoidance of
> > a
> > > > difficult
> > > > moral issue or simply a priority of passion? I
> > don't
> > > > know.
> > > ....
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Guy Brandenburg
> > > Washington, DC
> > > My home page:
> > >
> >
> http://home.earthlink.net/~gfbranden/GFB_Home_Page.html
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > This post and any attachments were tested before
> > being sent and
> > found to be virus free.
> > Our Norton-Symantic virus list is updated daily.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Guy Brandenburg
> Washington, DC
> My home page:
> http://home.earthlink.net/~gfbranden/GFB_Home_Page.html
>
>
This post and any attachments were tested before being sent and
found to be virus free.
Our Norton-Symantic virus list is updated daily.
_______________________________________________
ATM mailing list http://www.atmlist.net/