-snip- > > As this seems to be a thread that will not die ...-snip- > Bob Pfaff How about a pitch mirror? <g> OR for those glass flow types - set a pyrex blank on a turntable and watch it spin on cloudy nights. Might be a while .. give or take a hundred thousand years .. and you guys think I take a long time to figure a mirror. <bg> ;-) Mike Spooner