Re: [APML] Black Tuesday [OT]

["Jonathan Murray" <jonathangmurray@hotmail.com>]

With all due respect; the reasons outlined in this and the other articles in 
this thread for the underyling motivations for Tuesdays dreadful events are 
at best erroneous and at worst wrong.

We can all agree that Osama Bin Laden and his followers and those that would 
subscribe to his teaching are completely insane as most people on the far 
extremes of any issues tend to be. Rational explanantions of their 
behaviours just don't exist. However, the vast majority of Muslims would no 
more subscribe to his tactics and viewpoint than we would to the tactics and 
viewpoint of Timothy McVeigh.

To go around thinking that the reasons for the West (US, Britain etc.) being 
widely reviled in the Islamic world is a simple black and white good vs. 
evil; freedom loving people v.s those who would deny freedom is a gross 
oversimplification. It's certainly too simple a motivation to explain 
someone strapping several pounds of C4 to their body walking into a 
restaraunt and pressing the button. Or, five guys hijacking an airliner and 
committing suicide by flying it into building. I'm afraid that unless we 
all, including our polictical leaders, start to address the tortured and 
complex historical process which has laid the foundations for their hatred 
of us then we will continue to face many similar incidents to come.

The vast majority of Muslims relish the same basic freedoms which we respect 
and which are codified in the Qu'ran. In fact one of the basic tenets of 
Islam is respect for multiple cultures and religeons and a mandate to ensure 
religeous freedom for all peoples. The fact that this has been perverted by 
a few extremists is unfortunate in that it clouds some very fundamental 
issues which we do well to pay attention too.

The reason there is so much hatred for the West (Not just the US) in the the 
Muslim world is beacause of the centuries of persecution they have suffered 
at our hands. In particular I would suggest that a brief review of the 20th 
century history of the Middle East might be illuminating to those of you not 
familiar with it. The pivotal event was the founding of the State of Isreal 
after the second world war. At that time the allied powers, primarily 
Britain and the US carved up Palestine and displaced millions of Muslims. 
Now, the Palestinians didn't get to vote on this. There was no demoncratic 
election, no polls, none of the democratic institutions we all hold so dear. 
They were just evicted at gun point and so it has been for close to 60 
years. These were people who's families had lived on this land for over two 
thousand years. While we can all be deeply sympathetic to the historic 
plight of the Jewish people, they had no more right to have a nation carved 
out of someone elses land than you or I do. However, the Allied powers found 
it expedient to do it because the arab nations were powerless to stop them.

Having been displaced 60 years ago, multiple generations have grown up in 
refugee camps, living on land that cannot support agriculture, who have 
inadequate water suplies, little or no education or medical facilities. They 
look across the Jordan valley and from the West Bank into the State of 
Israel and they see an occupying force. Not only that they see an occupying 
force that has been bankrolled and armed by the US (Primarily) and Britain 
(To a lesser extent) for the last half century. When they get shot, they get 
shot by American weapons. When they're camps or houses are shelled and 
bulldozed they see American Tanks. When they're streets are straffed by 
cannon they see American made F16 and 18s.

Bottom line they hold us responsible for having created thier plight and 
having compounded that by continuing to finance and arm the people occupying 
their land. When you study the history it's really no wonder that they're 
pisssed or that they view us the way they do. And that's just the 
Palestinians.

If you want some other examples just look at the history or Iran this 
century and the roll the west played in bankrolling and arming a brutal 
dictatorship which rulled the country for thirty years after WWII. When we 
had maximum influence in Iran during this period did we promulgate our love 
of demoncratic processes and freedoms? Hell no, the Oil was way more 
important. The west needed a subservient populace under totalitarian rule to 
make the sure the oil kept flowing. It's little wonder that when the people 
had had enough and rose up and overthrew this non-democratic regime they 
replaced one extreme system with another. It is quite remarkable that our 
polictical leaders continue to miss the lessons that could be learnt from 
such events. If you dismiss this as just one random example then you might 
consider how much we are loathed by large percentages of the populace in 
many Latin American countries for exactly the same reasons.

Perhaps we could discuss the West's involvement in Iraq. When the Iranian 
revolution took place we ploughed resources into Iraq. I know it'd difficult 
to see through the fog of recent events but Saddam Husein used to be the 
darling of the West. He was the bullwark which would prevent the westward 
spread of Islamic fundmentalism. Where does nayone think his massive 
military infrastructure, technical training etc. came from? The intelligence 
services and military advisers were heavily involved in Iraq in the 
seventies and early eighties. Did we at the same time provide assistance 
with economic or social development, health care etc. Did we insist on 
democratic reforms for the assistance we provided? Hell no, that would just 
have got in the way of our focused objective; stopping Iran's expansion. Now 
we're in a mess; we're funding a dictator to stop the expansion of a country 
who's fundamentalist government came to power because the people overthrew a 
brutal dictatorship which we put in place and bankrolled. The world's not 
looking Black and White anymore is it? Oh and of course as we all know, 
after a brutal Muslim vs. Muslim war/genocide between Iraq and Iran, in 
which we are highly culpable, Saddam turns around and bites us. It's really 
no wonder that Muslim's of the world are tired of us messing around in their 
affairs or that they have a deep resentment for the pain and suffering we 
have contributed to.

I've spent time in Jordan twice in the last year. An Arabic country but one 
where Muslims and Christians live side by side. On one of those visits I 
rented a car on my own and drove the length of the country over three days 
stopping in small villages and towns along the way. Without exception I 
received hospitatility which one would normally reserve for long lost 
members of your family. I would have trusted my life with the people I met 
and I can say that about very few of the places I visit each year.

The best illustration of thier hospitality and unfailing helpfullness was 
the problem I ran into on the dessert highway coming back to Amman at 
11:00pm. This is a major multi-lane freeway than runs the length of Jordan 
used primarily by semi's bringing freight up from the gulf. In the middle of 
nowhere the tire on my car blew out and I had to pull over. The jack did not 
work and so I was stuck. My only option was to flag down one of the trucks 
and hope for some assistance. Within five minutes a huge truck pulled off 
the road and a older gentleman in full arab dress jumped out of the cab. He 
spoke no english and I spoke no arabic. For 90 minutes he improvised a 
solution to get the old wheel off and the new one fitted. At no point did he 
throw up his hands and give in. He was going to make sure that I got safely 
back on the road. When we finally managed to change the tire he would not 
let me leave without coming over to his truck to wash my hands. Once he was 
sure I was OK he smiled, got back in his truck, wished me well, watched me 
get back on the road and then started rolling himself. Despite my offer, he 
would not accept one dime of compensation for the time and energy he had 
spent on my problem despite the fact that he was probably on bonuses for 
delivering his goods on time.

This was an individual who's race, friends, family and neighbours have 
suffered extreme deprivation and persecuton during the 20th Century. 
Persecution which we in the west have often lead and to which we continue to 
contribute. I only hope that I could be anywhere near as charitable if 
placed in the same set of circumstances.

There will be many who do not even get this far; who stopped reading when I 
said this was not a black and white issue. Black and white issues are easy 
for us to deal with and I don't blame folks for wanting to attach themselves 
to these simple explananations. Unfortunately, the reason we're hated around 
the world is that our leaders attach them selves to the balck and white 
solution at nearly every opportunity. The one rare divergence from this 
approach has been the US involvement in the Northern Ireland situation which 
showed a degree of subtelty and creativenees which rarely shines in US 
foreign policy. While not perfect the results have moved that tortured 
country in a very positive direction.

Our polictical leaders need to roll up thier sleeves and get their hands 
dirty addressing the complexity of the Middle East issue. Rushing in with 
yet another simple solution will not help. In fact it will almost certainly 
prolong the agony for all of us. Frankly, I'm for nuking the bastards that 
carried out the attrocities in NY and Washington DC. However, if we do not 
couple that type of blunt response with a more complex set of solutions for 
the true underlying motivations which drive the Middle Eastern conflict then 
I fear for the future. This war will never end and the civilian casualties 
on both sides will just continue to mount. We need to start learning from 
history.

The world changed on Tuesday and I hope our leaders have also...



>From: "Shekhar Borde" <shekhar@prodigy.net>
>Reply-To: astro-photo@seds.org
>To: <astro-photo@seds.org>
>Subject: Re: [APML] Black Tuesday [OT]
>Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 00:10:41 -0700
>
>Since we are doing articles, here is one that I really liked.   -- Shekhar
>
>--
>
>Why they hate us   --   Steve Chapman
>
>
>  Americans aren't yet sure who carried out the atrocities that shocked the 
>nation and
>the world this week. What we do know is that there is no shortage of people 
>with a
>motive. Plenty of our fellow human beings around the world despise us, our 
>system of
>government, our economic order, and our way of life -- and some of them 
>have so much
>hatred that they are ready to kill and to die.


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