Re: [APML] Film is not dead

[Jerry Lodriguss <lists3@astropix.com>]

At 06:24 AM 3/1/2005, you wrote:
>Jerry these are good. I'm truely impressed. I may be a bit behind on 
>knowing the best digital images out there now. Some thoughts and coments: 
>These were all made at temps below 40 F. What would the camera's 
>performance be in warm climate?

I don't know. They get more thermal noise at higher temps. Likewise, film 
performs better at lower temps. I do know that the latest models are very 
low noise. So much so that I don't even shoot thermal frames anymore, but I 
haven't tried them at 70 degrees yet either. I would guess that even at 
that temp, you could subtract a dark frame and not worry about the thermal 
noise.



>I'm seeing some subtle processing artifacts (not so subtle on the HH 
>shot). Some of these images also appear to have a pretty good blur applied 
>to them. How good are these at larger size prints and how well do these 
>images hold up at high resolution compared to web resolution?

I don't know. I would guess just as well as film, if not better.  I don't 
see the processing artifacts you refer to on the Horsehead shot, but I can 
tell you that my images, shot on film, have plenty of processing artifacts!




>Again, these are good. As I said I'm probably a bit behind the curve on 
>seeing the latest and best, but I'm not sure these are comparable to the 
>best film images out there.


Well, I don't know, these DSLR images are pretty darn good, IMHO as good as 
film. Sure, they are not as good as Wei-Ho's large format film mosaics shot 
from Mauna Kea. But it's just a question of time until he can't get the 
film to shoot anymore.

You also have to consider that film photographers have had decades to 
perfect their techniques and there are a lot more film photographers out 
there doing it (well, a lot more good ones at least right now). So if you 
had a similar number of great DLSR astrophotographers using the latest 
equipment, you'd certainly see a lot more great pix. It's just a numbers 
game right now.

When I think of the many advantages that DSLRs have over film (not that 
film isn't great), I just don't see any reason to shoot film anymore. Just 
think... no more flowing nitrogen into the cameras... no more film creep... 
no more film or processing costs (this alone offsets the cost of the 
camera, especially if you are shooting E200 Pro and having it developed at 
a Pro lab (which almost don't exist anymore)... linear response... no 
reciprocity failure... less mount and tracking problems by adding shorter 
exposures... you only lose one five minute exposure instead of a sixty 
minute exposure if a plane flies through... real time focus and framing 
feedback...  constant technological improvement instead of serendipitous 
luck that a film is good for astro... continued availability of the 
technology instead of discontinued products like techpan...

Film is not dead. Not yet. Long live film!

But, being incredibly lazy, I'm switching.  You either ride the steamroller 
of new technology, or you become part of the road. :-)

Jerry



>However these D-slr images will only get better. The Ha response is as 
>good as I've seen from D-slr's. I knew the modified D300 Canons were doing 
>OK in this regard but I have not seen any Nikon D70 images this good.
>Bobby Middleton
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Lodriguss" <lists3@astropix.com>
>To: "Discussion of Film Astrophotography" <astro-photo@seds.org>
>Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 11:45 AM
>Subject: Re: [APML] Film is not dead
>
>
>>At 09:09 PM 2/27/2005, you wrote:
>>>What really gets me is the 2-3 digital SLR images in the mags month. 
>>>These things are sort of "up-and-coming". But are they worthy of the 
>>>recognition? They SIMPLY CANNOT COMPETE with film images. Sure digital 
>>>SLR's have advantages such as real-time viewing and instant download 
>>>which bypasses a scanner, but their Ha response and their noise levels 
>>>compared to film is a joke. Not to say there's not some nice digital SLR 
>>>images out there--there are; and they will get better. But the best 
>>>digital SLR images compred to the best film is no comparison at all.
>>
>>Hi Bobby,
>>
>>I'm sorry to have to disagree with you here.  Personally, I think that 
>>DSLR Images can be every bit as good as film.
>>
>>Perhaps you haven't seen the best astrophotography that is being done 
>>with DSLRs. Check these out ...
>>
>>M31 with a Nikon D70: http://astro.nightsky.at/Photo/Gal/M31_WN.html
>>
>>Flaming Star with Nikon D70: 
>>http://astro.nightsky.at/Photo/Neb/IC405_IC410_WN.html
>>
>>Horsehead with Nikon D70: http://astro.nightsky.at/Photo/Neb/B33_WN.html
>>
>>IC443 with Canon 300D: 
>>http://astrosurf.com/eyesinthesky/web/last/IC443-444.htm
>>
>>NGC 6726 with Nikon D70: http://www.pbase.com/terrylovejoy/image/33864126
>>
>>
>>Jerry
>>
>>
>>
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