RE: [APML] OT: New 35mm Astro CCD camera

["Loke Tan" <tan@cox.net>]

 Part of the reason CCDs appear to be an anomaly is because as feature size
in ICs shrink, the electronics get smaller and hence cost less to produce.
CCDs by design require that the IC remain the same size. Or if you want,
they can be larger for more cost. CCDs do not benefit from the IC yield
curve like a microprocessor would. In the case of microprocessors, the
prices remains relatively the same but you get much more for your investment
every generation because they pack more and more into the same chip.

 CCDs have shown quite a bit of improvement with each new generation. Larger
imagers are available now and also better sensitivity. As more and more CCDs
appear on commercial digital cameras, you get the benefit of volume but of
course no benefit from feature size reduction.

 Yes, an AP155 will be worth more in the future than today. However if
someone "invents" a better glass or a better APO design, the prices for the
current batch of APOs could very well decrease (unless one gets a "vintage"
value added bonus). I use the word "better" to mean a true improvement and
not just something barely incremental. This is exactly what is happening
with CCDs. It gets better each generation and yes the previous generation
becomes obsolete but as you know the images get better and better with each
generation of camera. With optics, it is of course not possible but if each
year brings a superior APO scope to the market, our investment in the
current scope will decrease but you get to see more as a new better design
comes along. I would rather see CCDs improve with each generation with
prices remain relatively constant than for the technology to stagnate and my
investment in the original camera protected. Unfortunately this means that
the guy with more resources can do better because of technology and not just
talent and persistence.


Loke




> -----Original Message-----
> From: astro-photo-bounces@seds.org
> [mailto:astro-photo-bounces@seds.org]On Behalf Of Chuck Vaughn
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 3:02 PM
> To: Discussion of Film Astrophotography
> Subject: Re: [APML] OT: New 35mm Astro CCD camera
>
>
> Michael,
>
> I think the problem here is that amateurs have an appreciation for
> precision optics and the labor in the production phase that goes into
> them. So far you can't throw a piece of glass on a grinder and produce
> a 10th wave lens but I understand it's getting closer. Although we'd
> rather pay $1500 for an AP155, we understand the costs involved.
>
> CCD astro cameras are an anomaly in the electronics market where we
> haven't got 10 times the product for 1/10 the price compared to 10
> years ago (or whatever numbers you care to put in there). The cost of
> most electronic products are not made up of the cost of a single part.
> LCDs for computers is another. We just need to realize that the chips
> are expensive.
>
> I'm not saying that CCD chips have not come down in price and at the
> same time gotten larger, but not nearly to the degree of most things
> electronic.
>
> There's another difference that causes people to balk at CCD camera
> prices. An AP155 will be useful for the rest of one's life and perhaps
> longer where a CCD camera will be obsolete in 10 years.... if you're
> lucky. I don't mind putting some serious money into something that is


> going to be useful as long as I care to use it, but I don't want to do
> that for something that needs replacement every few years.
>
> Chuck <aa6g@aa6g.org>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Astro-Photo mailing list
> Astro-Photo@seds.org
> http://seds.org/mailman/listinfo/astro-photo
>


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