Re: [APML] Kodak's final response and my film analysis (kiss ofdeath)

["Mike & Dianna" <galaxy@ncweb.com>]

Alan,

I ordered 35 rolls from B&H this weekend with a request to only ship supra
that didnt have the starburst. The order arrived today and guess what I got
? Yup, all have the starburst with the evil cat number.
I made a phone call to them before they closed and told them about the
mistake. He put me on hold and went to check their stock.....guess what
again ? No more at B&H. Only the starburst stuff. The good stuff is gone, so
at least this one guy says.
Would have been nice to recive a email or phone call before they shipped it,
but I guess its not the end of the world.
I have to call customer service in the morning to arange for the film to be
returned.

Thanks for the heads up work youve been doing on the supra....its much
appreciated !

Sincerely,

Mike Leitch
galaxy@ncweb.com
Astrophotography website
www.ncweb.com/~galaxy/home/astropho.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Voetsch <critter12952@yahoo.com>
To: APML <astro-photo@seds.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 7:09 PM
Subject: [APML] Kodak's final response and my film analysis (kiss of death)


> Hey all,
>
> Below you will find Kodak's response to my last e-mail. He confirms
> that starburst Supra boxes are in fact the long dreaded Royal Supra.
> It's possible that there are exceptions, you may want to check the
> catalog numbers (CAT) on the boxes below where it says "Process C-41".
> Then compare to the numbers below. I can not find the numbers he refers
> to; "8182 is the older version and 5926 is the new Royal Supra".
> CAT 861 0800 is what we want. CAT 814 1665 is EVIL.
>
> Now to the film results. On a previous roll (old Supra) last week, I
> had shot the HH area of Orion many times with exposures ranging from
> 30-65 minutes using a piggybacked 350mm f/4 lens on my OM-1. When all
> this came up, I reloaded the same setup with Starburst Supra and took
> three shots of the same area using the same guidestar. Because of the
> moon, I kept these a little shorter but still in the same range; 40,
> 40, and 22 minutes. Not one of these 3 shots picked up anything except
> a faint Flame Nebula. The old fim showed plenty of rich reds in this
> area, the new film showed absolutely nothing. There is no comparison,
> it is crap. It is BS. This film says "Supra" everywhere including the
> cannister, even though it is royal Supra. The Kodak guy calls it "Royal
> Supra", so why is it being marketed as "SUPRA"?
>
> What should you do? Call your supplier and see if you can send it back.
> What then? Find suppliers of the older stuff and see if they still have
> some. If so, post to the list and let everyone know.
>
> I have talked to the people I ordered 85 rolls from 2 days ago. He says
> he has some Fuji film that he thinks might be good for our use. He
> offered to send 100 rolls for us to try. I think a better idea is to
> let him send a few rolls to Don Westergren (how many Don?) for testing
> and then he can post results. These films are 800CZ and 1600 CU. I
> never heard of them and they're probably too grainy.
>
> Anyway, I need to get this sent. I would like to thank Greg Hartke
> quickly for pointing out the correct CAT #'s last night.
>
> See below for Kodak's official word.
>
> Alan
>
> --- Kodak US <OtherUS@cyber.kodak.com> wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:52:16 -0500
> > To: Alan Voetsch <critter12952@yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: KODAK PROFESSIONAL SUPRA 400 FILM       (KMM3326549C0KM)
> > From: Kodak US <OtherUS@cyber.kodak.com>
> >
> > Dear Alan:
> >
> > Yes, you are correct in your assumption - you are now receiving
> > "Royal
> > Supra" instead of Supra.  The CAT# 814 1665 is KODAK PROFESSIONAL
> > SUPRA
> > 400 FILM / COMMERCIAL NEGATIVE / 5926 / 135-36 (5 PACK) for EXPORT.
> > CAT
> > 861 0800 is KODAK PROFESSIONAL SUPRA 400 FILM / COMMERCIAL COLOR
> > NEGATIVE / 8182 / 135-36 (5 PACK) for EXPORT.  The difference is 8182
> > is
> > the older version and the 5926 is the new Royal Supra.  So, the new
> > packaging does indicate a change in the emulsion formula in the Supra
> > film.
> >
> > The two emulsions are different - the image structure on the new
> > version
> > is better (mainly granularity) but it will print basically the same
> > as
> > the old product.  Your concern might be more related to reciprocity.
> > You
> > will need to test it to see if it meets your needs for long exposure
> > times.
> >
> > Thank you for visiting the Kodak website.  If you should have future
> > questions on Kodak products or services, please call us at
> > 1-800-242-2424, ext 19 (Monday-Friday, 9:00am-6:00pm EST).  To learn
> > more about Kodak photofinishing chemical products, please visit our
> > photochemical web page located at:
> > http://www.kodak.com/go/photochemicals .
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Gary Spence
> > Kodak Information and Technical Support
> >
> >
> > Original message follows:
> > -------------------------
> >
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > --- Kodak US <OtherUS@cyber.kodak.com> wrote:
> > > Alan,
> > >
> > > If you have the catalog number for the film that you have, I should
> > > be  able to determine definitively if this is Kodak Supra or Royal
> > > Supra Film.
> >
> > Well, I asked for help on this and as close as we can guess (on the
> > catalog number)is this:
> >
> > Process C-41, and then under that:
> > CAT 814 1665
> >
> > Any chance that's the catalog number?
> >
> > On an older box (expiration: 03/2004), I see this #:
> > Cat 861 0800
> >
> > Appreciate your help,
> > Alan Voetsch
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Alan Voetsch
> > critter12952@yahoo.com
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Alan,
> >
> > If you have the catalog number for the film that you have, I should
> > be
> > able to determine definitively if this is Kodak Supra or Royal Supra
> > Film.
> >
> > Thank you for visiting the Kodak web site
> >
> > http://www.kodak.com/go/professional
> >
> > If you should have any questions on Kodak products or services,
> > please
> > be sure to revisit our site as we are continually adding information
> > to
> > enhance our support.  If you need further assistance you may also
> > reach
> > us at 1-800-242-2424  ext. 19 (Monday-Friday, 9am-7pm EST)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Peter V.
> > Kodak Information and Technical Support
> > Kodak Professional
> >
> > Original message follows:
> > -------------------------
> >
> > Hello Peter,
> >
> > If you can answer just one questiom for me I promise I'll leave you
> > alone. :-) If you read my post (below yours) that prompted your reply
> > below, you'll see that I asked about the new packaging and if, in any
> > way it might indicate a change in the emulsion formula in the Supra
> > film. Many of us are worried that it might indicate we will now be
> > receiving "Royal Supra" instaed of Supra. When you consider the fact
> > that I ordered 15 rolls 10 days ago and another 85 rolls earlier
> > today,
> > maybe you can understand that many of us have a lot at stake. Also
> > consider that my average exposure time is 2 1/2 hours PER FRAME. That
> > adds up sometimes to 80-100 hours of exposure time on a single roll.
> > Sometimes this time is spent on freezing, damp nights.
> >
> > So here goes, does the fact that there is now a starburst design
> > proclaiming "improved color" on the Supra box mean that there has
> > been
> > an emulsion change? Is this the same film it has been? Is it "Royal
> > Supra", which is our worst fear.
> >
> > Thank you for your patience,
> > Alan Voetsch
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Kodak US <OtherUS@cyber.kodak.com> wrote:
> > > Alan,
> > >
> > > Some dealers (distributors) will play a game of semantics with
> > their
> > > customers.  While both of these designation for films are made in
> > the
> > > USA, only one is intended for sale and is distributed in the USA.
> > > Films
> > > made in this country, exported to another part of the world and
> > > reimported back to the USA are referred to as "grey market" film.
> > > These
> > > products are sold without proof-of-purchase symbols, are not
> > > supported
> > > by manufacturers' warranties, are not eligible for manufacturers'
> > > rebates, and may not have instructions in English.
> > >
> > > Both films start out the same but the grey market product might be
> > > different when it finally ends up on a dealers shelf for resale.
> > > We're
> > > unable to govern the conditions under which these products are
> > > shipped
> > > since they are handled by a third party not affiliated with Kodak.
> > > Since
> > > film is very sensitive to heat and humidity, it needs to be handled
> > > correctly because if it is not, by the time a grey market film
> > > reaches
> > > you, it may be an inferior product.
> > >
> > > To protect your reputation, always insist on a professional film
> > made
> > > in
> > > the USA for distribution in the USA.
> > >
> > > http://www.kodak.com/go/proproductsnetwork
> > >
> > > Thank you for visiting the Kodak web site
> > >
> > > http://www.kodak.com/go/professional
> > >
> > > If you should have any questions on Kodak products or services,
> > > please
> > > be sure to revisit our site as we are continually adding
> > information
> > > to
> > > enhance our support.  If you need further assistance you may also
> > > reach
> > > us at 1-800-242-2424  ext. 19 (Monday-Friday, 9am-7pm EST)
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Peter V.
> > > Kodak Information and Technical Support
> > > Kodak Professional
> > >
> > > Original message follows:
> > > -------------------------
> > >
> > > Hello Peter,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your response, I have shared it with several hundred
> > > other astrophotographers. I have another question for you regarding
> > > Supra400. The UPS guy just dropped off my latest order of Supra and
> > I
> > > notice a difference in the packaging. This is on the "Made in USA
> > for
> > > International Use" box. It has a small red starburst on which it
> > says
> > > "Improved Color". This was not on the last batch I ordered a few
> > > months
> > > ago. Is it possible that even though the boxes say Supra 400 that
> > > they
> > > actually contain the first of the "Royal Supra" series? The
> > > expiration
> > > date says: 09/2004.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your time,
> > > Alan Voetsch
> > > 541-899-3248
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
> > http://shopping.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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