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[APML] Kodak's final response and my film analysis (kiss of death)
Hey all,
Below you will find Kodak's response to my last e-mail. He confirms
that starburst Supra boxes are in fact the long dreaded Royal Supra.
It's possible that there are exceptions, you may want to check the
catalog numbers (CAT) on the boxes below where it says "Process C-41".
Then compare to the numbers below. I can not find the numbers he refers
to; "8182 is the older version and 5926 is the new Royal Supra".
CAT 861 0800 is what we want. CAT 814 1665 is EVIL.
Now to the film results. On a previous roll (old Supra) last week, I
had shot the HH area of Orion many times with exposures ranging from
30-65 minutes using a piggybacked 350mm f/4 lens on my OM-1. When all
this came up, I reloaded the same setup with Starburst Supra and took
three shots of the same area using the same guidestar. Because of the
moon, I kept these a little shorter but still in the same range; 40,
40, and 22 minutes. Not one of these 3 shots picked up anything except
a faint Flame Nebula. The old fim showed plenty of rich reds in this
area, the new film showed absolutely nothing. There is no comparison,
it is crap. It is BS. This film says "Supra" everywhere including the
cannister, even though it is royal Supra. The Kodak guy calls it "Royal
Supra", so why is it being marketed as "SUPRA"?
What should you do? Call your supplier and see if you can send it back.
What then? Find suppliers of the older stuff and see if they still have
some. If so, post to the list and let everyone know.
I have talked to the people I ordered 85 rolls from 2 days ago. He says
he has some Fuji film that he thinks might be good for our use. He
offered to send 100 rolls for us to try. I think a better idea is to
let him send a few rolls to Don Westergren (how many Don?) for testing
and then he can post results. These films are 800CZ and 1600 CU. I
never heard of them and they're probably too grainy.
Anyway, I need to get this sent. I would like to thank Greg Hartke
quickly for pointing out the correct CAT #'s last night.
See below for Kodak's official word.
Alan
--- Kodak US <OtherUS@cyber.kodak.com> wrote:
> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:52:16 -0500
> To: Alan Voetsch <critter12952@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: KODAK PROFESSIONAL SUPRA 400 FILM (KMM3326549C0KM)
> From: Kodak US <OtherUS@cyber.kodak.com>
>
> Dear Alan:
>
> Yes, you are correct in your assumption - you are now receiving
> "Royal
> Supra" instead of Supra. The CAT# 814 1665 is KODAK PROFESSIONAL
> SUPRA
> 400 FILM / COMMERCIAL NEGATIVE / 5926 / 135-36 (5 PACK) for EXPORT.
> CAT
> 861 0800 is KODAK PROFESSIONAL SUPRA 400 FILM / COMMERCIAL COLOR
> NEGATIVE / 8182 / 135-36 (5 PACK) for EXPORT. The difference is 8182
> is
> the older version and the 5926 is the new Royal Supra. So, the new
> packaging does indicate a change in the emulsion formula in the Supra
> film.
>
> The two emulsions are different - the image structure on the new
> version
> is better (mainly granularity) but it will print basically the same
> as
> the old product. Your concern might be more related to reciprocity.
> You
> will need to test it to see if it meets your needs for long exposure
> times.
>
> Thank you for visiting the Kodak website. If you should have future
> questions on Kodak products or services, please call us at
> 1-800-242-2424, ext 19 (Monday-Friday, 9:00am-6:00pm EST). To learn
> more about Kodak photofinishing chemical products, please visit our
> photochemical web page located at:
> http://www.kodak.com/go/photochemicals .
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary Spence
> Kodak Information and Technical Support
>
>
> Original message follows:
> -------------------------
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> --- Kodak US <OtherUS@cyber.kodak.com> wrote:
> > Alan,
> >
> > If you have the catalog number for the film that you have, I should
> > be able to determine definitively if this is Kodak Supra or Royal
> > Supra Film.
>
> Well, I asked for help on this and as close as we can guess (on the
> catalog number)is this:
>
> Process C-41, and then under that:
> CAT 814 1665
>
> Any chance that's the catalog number?
>
> On an older box (expiration: 03/2004), I see this #:
> Cat 861 0800
>
> Appreciate your help,
> Alan Voetsch
>
>
> =====
> Alan Voetsch
> critter12952@yahoo.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> Alan,
>
> If you have the catalog number for the film that you have, I should
> be
> able to determine definitively if this is Kodak Supra or Royal Supra
> Film.
>
> Thank you for visiting the Kodak web site
>
> http://www.kodak.com/go/professional
>
> If you should have any questions on Kodak products or services,
> please
> be sure to revisit our site as we are continually adding information
> to
> enhance our support. If you need further assistance you may also
> reach
> us at 1-800-242-2424 ext. 19 (Monday-Friday, 9am-7pm EST)
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter V.
> Kodak Information and Technical Support
> Kodak Professional
>
> Original message follows:
> -------------------------
>
> Hello Peter,
>
> If you can answer just one questiom for me I promise I'll leave you
> alone. :-) If you read my post (below yours) that prompted your reply
> below, you'll see that I asked about the new packaging and if, in any
> way it might indicate a change in the emulsion formula in the Supra
> film. Many of us are worried that it might indicate we will now be
> receiving "Royal Supra" instaed of Supra. When you consider the fact
> that I ordered 15 rolls 10 days ago and another 85 rolls earlier
> today,
> maybe you can understand that many of us have a lot at stake. Also
> consider that my average exposure time is 2 1/2 hours PER FRAME. That
> adds up sometimes to 80-100 hours of exposure time on a single roll.
> Sometimes this time is spent on freezing, damp nights.
>
> So here goes, does the fact that there is now a starburst design
> proclaiming "improved color" on the Supra box mean that there has
> been
> an emulsion change? Is this the same film it has been? Is it "Royal
> Supra", which is our worst fear.
>
> Thank you for your patience,
> Alan Voetsch
>
>
>
> --- Kodak US <OtherUS@cyber.kodak.com> wrote:
> > Alan,
> >
> > Some dealers (distributors) will play a game of semantics with
> their
> > customers. While both of these designation for films are made in
> the
> > USA, only one is intended for sale and is distributed in the USA.
> > Films
> > made in this country, exported to another part of the world and
> > reimported back to the USA are referred to as "grey market" film.
> > These
> > products are sold without proof-of-purchase symbols, are not
> > supported
> > by manufacturers' warranties, are not eligible for manufacturers'
> > rebates, and may not have instructions in English.
> >
> > Both films start out the same but the grey market product might be
> > different when it finally ends up on a dealers shelf for resale.
> > We're
> > unable to govern the conditions under which these products are
> > shipped
> > since they are handled by a third party not affiliated with Kodak.
> > Since
> > film is very sensitive to heat and humidity, it needs to be handled
> > correctly because if it is not, by the time a grey market film
> > reaches
> > you, it may be an inferior product.
> >
> > To protect your reputation, always insist on a professional film
> made
> > in
> > the USA for distribution in the USA.
> >
> > http://www.kodak.com/go/proproductsnetwork
> >
> > Thank you for visiting the Kodak web site
> >
> > http://www.kodak.com/go/professional
> >
> > If you should have any questions on Kodak products or services,
> > please
> > be sure to revisit our site as we are continually adding
> information
> > to
> > enhance our support. If you need further assistance you may also
> > reach
> > us at 1-800-242-2424 ext. 19 (Monday-Friday, 9am-7pm EST)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Peter V.
> > Kodak Information and Technical Support
> > Kodak Professional
> >
> > Original message follows:
> > -------------------------
> >
> > Hello Peter,
> >
> > Thank you for your response, I have shared it with several hundred
> > other astrophotographers. I have another question for you regarding
> > Supra400. The UPS guy just dropped off my latest order of Supra and
> I
> > notice a difference in the packaging. This is on the "Made in USA
> for
> > International Use" box. It has a small red starburst on which it
> says
> > "Improved Color". This was not on the last batch I ordered a few
> > months
> > ago. Is it possible that even though the boxes say Supra 400 that
> > they
> > actually contain the first of the "Royal Supra" series? The
> > expiration
> > date says: 09/2004.
> >
> > Thanks for your time,
> > Alan Voetsch
> > 541-899-3248
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>
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