Re: [APML] Skill [was: Foveon Chip]

[stephen pitt <lthuedk@pe.net>]

Tom, two examples have been sent to you off list.  Stephen

Tom & Lou Krajci wrote:

> From: "stephen pitt" <lthuedk@pe.net>
>
> > > By any chance...were you one of the judges at last night's Olympic Pairs
> > > Figure Skating medal event?  ;-)
> >
> > Now, I know you missed my point....
>
> I probably did miss it.
>
> > > >...There has always been controversy concerning photography as an
> artform.
> > > Usually
> > > > though, it originates from the side lacking experience in Fine Art.
> > >
> > > Whatever that is.  (I know...his response will be, as the Red Hot Chili
> > > Peppers sang:  "If you have to ask, you'll never know!"  ;-)
> >
> > Well, I'm impressed by your open-mindedness, but it actually required
> years of
> > studio work, before which, I never knew the differences; that levels of
> art do
> > exist.  That's why the terms, "high art, pop art, illustrative art" exist.
>
> I don't deny their existance.  I'm just looking for that reference book
> published by an "international bureau of art standards" that removes
> subjective evaluation from the process of evaluating 'art.'  But much like
> Diogenes...I feel like I'm on a futile quest...carrying around a lantern and
> looking foolish.  ;-)
>
> Let's cover this point again.
>
> > Well, I'm impressed by your open-mindedness, but it actually required
> years of
> > studio work, before which, I never knew the differences; that levels of
> art do
> > exist.  That's why the terms, "high art, pop art, illustrative art" exist.
>
> I ski.  On snow, not liquid water.  When I was really active with the sport,
> I took frequent lessons.  Some of those lessons were in large groups where
> instructors had to subdivide the herd into groups based on skill.  The
> instructors had us trudge only 30 feet up a beginner slope...even the
> experienced skiers trudged only 30 feet up the easy slope.  That meant we
> were able to make only about 3 or 4 turns while they evaluted us and told us
> what instructor to work with.
>
> Only a few turns?  On an easy slope?  How could the ski instructors really
> know who fell where in the Austrian 5 stage skiing system with such a short
> test?
>
> Now that I've got some miles logged under my ski boots...I can see the
> differences fairly easily in most cases.
>
> But here's the important difference between my approach and what I think I
> see in yours.  When I describe why someone is a good or bad skier...I'll
> describe it in terms that are (to the best of my ability)...an objective
> assessment of such things as edge control, pole planting, weight transfer,
> knee action, upper body position, etc.
>
> Jerry L. has asked you for a definition of 'fine art.'  I want the same
> thing...but so far I don't think you've pointed us to anything we can firmly
> hang our hat upon.  (But that guarantees the chase-your-tail discussions
> need never end...how entertaining!...but is it enlightening?  ;-)
>
> > I continue to evolve, but I know the distinctions earlier stated.   My
> > understanding of the limitations in general photography comes from
> experience in
> > both disciplines.  Photography is challenging, fun, technical, and
> somewhat
> > monetarily fruitful, but is artistically stifling.
>
> Point taken.  You can take that writing tool and apply it wherever, however
> you want onto your medium of expression.  In that consideration photography
> is 'limiting.'
>
> However, just because the are fewer constraints in Fine Art as compared to
> photography...it doesn't necessarily mean those that attempt Fine Art do it
> so much better.  I wager that there are plenty of 'constrained'
> photographers that are doing some great work.  (But I still don't have an
> objective method of evaluation of 'art' or photography...so I really don't
> know what I'm talking about here. ;-)
>
> > Fine Art hides nothing.  Stephen Pitt
>
> I remember reading a commentary in The Economist about the history of 'art'
> and what it 'shows'  (OK, there was almost certainly some bias in that
> Economist article.)  ...in past centuries it was frequently expression of a
> story, allegory, often a theme from legend or sacred texts...in 'modern
> times' it's more often an expression of the artist's ego.  (I don't
> necessarily say that that is a progression to better things in art...if
> given the choice between the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel and something
> hanging in an art museum created by Jackson Pollack...that choice is a
> no-brainer for me!  ;-)
>
> But I'm straying from astrophotography, and I need to make a
> temperature-induced focus correction to my photometry rig outside.....
>
> Tom Krajci
>
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