Re: [APML] Skill [was: Foveon Chip]

["Tom & Lou Krajci" <krajcit@3lefties.com>]

From: "stephen pitt" <lthuedk@pe.net>

> > By any chance...were you one of the judges at last night's Olympic Pairs
> > Figure Skating medal event?  ;-)
>
> Now, I know you missed my point....

I probably did miss it.

> > >...There has always been controversy concerning photography as an
artform.
> > Usually
> > > though, it originates from the side lacking experience in Fine Art.
> >
> > Whatever that is.  (I know...his response will be, as the Red Hot Chili
> > Peppers sang:  "If you have to ask, you'll never know!"  ;-)
>
> Well, I'm impressed by your open-mindedness, but it actually required
years of
> studio work, before which, I never knew the differences; that levels of
art do
> exist.  That's why the terms, "high art, pop art, illustrative art" exist.

I don't deny their existance.  I'm just looking for that reference book
published by an "international bureau of art standards" that removes
subjective evaluation from the process of evaluating 'art.'  But much like
Diogenes...I feel like I'm on a futile quest...carrying around a lantern and
looking foolish.  ;-)

Let's cover this point again.

> Well, I'm impressed by your open-mindedness, but it actually required
years of
> studio work, before which, I never knew the differences; that levels of
art do
> exist.  That's why the terms, "high art, pop art, illustrative art" exist.

I ski.  On snow, not liquid water.  When I was really active with the sport,
I took frequent lessons.  Some of those lessons were in large groups where
instructors had to subdivide the herd into groups based on skill.  The
instructors had us trudge only 30 feet up a beginner slope...even the
experienced skiers trudged only 30 feet up the easy slope.  That meant we
were able to make only about 3 or 4 turns while they evaluted us and told us
what instructor to work with.

Only a few turns?  On an easy slope?  How could the ski instructors really
know who fell where in the Austrian 5 stage skiing system with such a short
test?

Now that I've got some miles logged under my ski boots...I can see the
differences fairly easily in most cases.

But here's the important difference between my approach and what I think I
see in yours.  When I describe why someone is a good or bad skier...I'll
describe it in terms that are (to the best of my ability)...an objective
assessment of such things as edge control, pole planting, weight transfer,
knee action, upper body position, etc.

Jerry L. has asked you for a definition of 'fine art.'  I want the same
thing...but so far I don't think you've pointed us to anything we can firmly
hang our hat upon.  (But that guarantees the chase-your-tail discussions
need never end...how entertaining!...but is it enlightening?  ;-)

> I continue to evolve, but I know the distinctions earlier stated.   My
> understanding of the limitations in general photography comes from
experience in
> both disciplines.  Photography is challenging, fun, technical, and
somewhat
> monetarily fruitful, but is artistically stifling.

Point taken.  You can take that writing tool and apply it wherever, however
you want onto your medium of expression.  In that consideration photography
is 'limiting.'

However, just because the are fewer constraints in Fine Art as compared to
photography...it doesn't necessarily mean those that attempt Fine Art do it
so much better.  I wager that there are plenty of 'constrained'
photographers that are doing some great work.  (But I still don't have an
objective method of evaluation of 'art' or photography...so I really don't
know what I'm talking about here. ;-)

> Fine Art hides nothing.  Stephen Pitt

I remember reading a commentary in The Economist about the history of 'art'
and what it 'shows'  (OK, there was almost certainly some bias in that
Economist article.)  ...in past centuries it was frequently expression of a
story, allegory, often a theme from legend or sacred texts...in 'modern
times' it's more often an expression of the artist's ego.  (I don't
necessarily say that that is a progression to better things in art...if
given the choice between the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel and something
hanging in an art museum created by Jackson Pollack...that choice is a
no-brainer for me!  ;-)

But I'm straying from astrophotography, and I need to make a
temperature-induced focus correction to my photometry rig outside.....

Tom Krajci



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