[Author Prev][Author Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Author Index][Thread Index]
Re: [APML] Skill [was: Foveon Chip]
Hi Stephen,
I'm sorry I have to admit it, but I read your whole message several times,
and I haven't got a clue as to what you are talking about when you refer to
art. I say this in a friendly, non-flaming, way.
First, do you think you can define art, or as you call it, fine art? I'd
like to know what your definition is. <G>
But, whatever it is, it will be defined in words, which really short-change
the experience.
Second, I get the feeling from your writing that you do not think
astrophotography is fine art? Sorry, Fine Art, with capital letters?
Because astrophotography, what, doesn't have "Rhythms of composition, fast
and slow
lines, plays of contrasting value and temperature, re-interpretation of nature,
simplification, scale and perspective manipulation..."
What the hell is "fast and slow lines" in photography? This just sounds
like psycho-babble to me.<G>
You say:
>Imagine Ansel Adams radically changing the
>content of his landscapes for a personal, more simplified and poetic
>read! Doing
>so-using more of the creative side-would cause instantaneous and negative peer
>reaction, not to mention shocking the naturalists.
Do you think Ansel Adams is a Fine Artist at all???
Do you think Ansel Adams is a Fine Artist because he is capturing the
beauty of nature as he finds it, or as he sees it and interprets it?
Is he a Fine Artist because what he captures in a photograph is true to
nature or because it is not true to nature?
You seem to think Adams does not change the contents of his landscapes, but
isn't this exactly what he did in "Moonrise, Hernandez New Mexico"???
The sun was still up when the photo was taken (he says so in his writings
on the image), and yet there is the moon in a black sky. The sky was not
black in reality when the photo was taken, but was rendered black by
filtration and manipulation during printing.
So, I guess the naturalists must be shocked.
<G>
Jerry
>The notion that AP is art must be qualified, particularly if it was
>presented to a
>group of Fine Artists whose intent was to create work through the
>integration of
>both hemispheres of the brain-not just the left side. Going beyond the
>learning
>stages is what Fine Art is all about. Rhythms of composition, fast and slow
>lines, plays of contrasting value and temperature, re-interpretation of
>nature,
>simplification, scale and perspective manipulation, method of media
>application,
>are all under fine control. The artistic process can become filled with much
>redundancy before an elegant product is produced. These factors cannot be
>controlled astrophotographically beyond field size, target orientation and
>software finalization. Never is Fine Art qualified or limited in any
>way, least
>of all by its practitioner's financial level. The world is populated by many
>poor, but wholly successful Fine Artists.
>
>Photography can be artistic in the sense of limited use of learned technique
>within the confines of the medium. Imagine Ansel Adams radically changing the
>content of his landscapes for a personal, more simplified and poetic
>read! Doing
>so-using more of the creative side-would cause instantaneous and negative peer
>reaction, not to mention shocking the naturalists. Astrophotography is
>even more
>limited due to its scientific nature: The furniture cannot be moved,
>simplified,
>or changed with respect to content for the sake of the composition. That
>popular
>objects of relatively unchanging shape and orientation are repeatedly
>imaged only
>underscores the need for accuracy.
>
>Can astrophotography be artistic? Yes. Art in the Fine sense? Absolutely
>not. In
>AP, there is plenty of beauty to be had as long as one limits creativity
>levels to
>accepted science. Currently, false colour work is having a showing, but
>is no
>more than an exercise in frustration to creative persons or a tool to
>illustrate
>chemical or physical composition. It is also a toe-testing of the waters of
>acceptance in the scientific rendering community. But beyond this point,
>unfortunately, credibility comes into play. Changing the orientation of
>IC434 to
>Alnitak and killing 75% of the adjacent star field would be godhead stuff,
>moving
>the work toward Fine Art but away from Science.
>
>There has always been controversey concerning photography as an
>artform. Usually
>though, it originates from the side lacking experience in Fine Art. I
>can still
>have fun working with a camera and find more than a few challenges using it.
>
>Stephen Pitt
>
>
>
>Matt BenDaniel wrote:
>
> > Chris,
> >
> > I think anyone who claims they "can't create beautiful astrophotos
> > without big $" is making excuses for lack of motivation and talent.
> >
> > There are quite a number of astrophotographers on the APML who do
> > excellent work on limited budgets (and with hard work and skill).
> > Wonderfully beautiful wide field astro pix can be made for cheap:
> > unguided piggyback, with a barn door, and on a tripod. The guys with
> > $30K CCD systems can't do that. And there's quite a few rich guys who
> > blow big $ on equipment and generate only mediocre pix.
> >
> > The skills needed for astrophotography have been continually changing.
> > When gas-hypering became popular that was a new skill. Running an
> > autoguider requires skill, and scanning, digital image processing, and
> > yes, even CCD image capture and calibration all require skills. And the
> > internet has accelerated the pace of everything. Excelling at any
> > endeavor always requires learning new skills.
> >
> > So clicking a mouse is too easy to be bothered with? Why have so few
> > astrophotographers mastered Picture Window or Photoshop LE? What does
> > that have to do with money?
> >
> > If anyone feels their imagery is outgunned by big $, they need to stop
> > feeling sorry for themselves and start focusing on doing the best they
> > can with the equipment they can afford (or borrow). Learn new skills.
> > Work hard. With talent and a bit of luck, you create beautiful art.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > Chris & Jennifer Cook wrote:
> > >
> > > Steven -
> > >
> > > I agree. While I am happy for the folks who can fork over the
> $30,000 for
> > > top rate imaging equipment(if I had it, I would
> too), astrophotography is
> > > rapidly becoming a hobby of haves and have nots. It is also a hobby
> where
> > > actual photographic talent is becoming less and less important. Back
> in the
> > > old days, you actually had to have a talent in the darkroom to produce a
> > > gallery quality print. You know, dodging and burning a image with
> your own
> > > hands..... not clicking a mouse or reading a image processing article
> on the
> > > web...........
> > > Today there is very little talent involved. Spend $30K, buy a computer,
> > > load the necessary software, read some articles out on the web and bingo,
> > > you can produce observatory quality images from your backyard. There
> is no
> > > talent here folks!
> > > BTW, don't bother with the flames............ <g>
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > ==================
> > > Chris Cook
> > > Astronomical Photography
> > > www.abmedia.com/astro
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: stephen pitt <lthuedk@pe.net>
> > > To: astro-photo@seds.org <astro-photo@seds.org>
> > > Date: Monday, February 11, 2002 8:16 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [APML] Foveon Chip
> > >
> > > >This technology would eliminate the filter wheel nonsense and make CCD
> > > >affordable through competition with the company that has a
> stranglehold on
> > > chip
> > > >prices. Lets face it, there's a large number of gifted APML
> emulsioneers
> > > who
> > > >could take CCD imaging much farther than it has been taken if the
> interest
> > > >wasn't so exclusive. It is frustrating to be in a holding pattern,
> > > watching
> > > >only the affluent at play with equipment of outrageous cost-only to
> be told
> > > we
> > > >can have it all from the suburbs. Duh.
> > > >
> > > >We need a shot of competition in this "hobby," otherwise, it
> aint. Stephen
> > > >Pitt
> > > >
> > > >Chris & Jennifer Cook wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> This looks to be a real turning point in digital imaging. I'm
> hoping the
> > > >> big camera manufacturers start using the chips. I wonder if
> Foveon has a
> > > 5
> > > >> mega-pixel chip planned. I only saw that it went up to 3 mega-pixel.
> > > >>
> > > >> As far as applying it to deep sky imaging, I wonder if a chip like
> this
> > > >> would work given is has good QE and blue sensitivity.......
> thoughts from
> > > >> the CCD experts?
> > > >>
> > > >> Chris
> > > >>
> > > >> ==================
> > > >> Chris Cook
> > > >> Astronomical Photography
> > > >> www.abmedia.com/astro
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: stephen pitt <lthuedk@pe.net>
> > > >> To: astro-photo@seds.org <astro-photo@seds.org>
> > > >> Date: Monday, February 11, 2002 11:25 AM
> > > >> Subject: [APML] Foveon Chip
> > > >>
> > > >> >Current CCD chip architecture appears primative compared to this:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >http://www.dpreview.com/news/0202/02021101foveonx3.asp
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Kodak's market supression is about to take a hit-unless of
> course, they
> > > >> >buy out Foveon. sp
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >-- APML Archives at <http://astro.umsystem.edu/apml/> ---
> > > >> > Unsubscribe at <majordomo@seds.org>
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> -- APML Archives at <http://astro.umsystem.edu/apml/> ---
> > > >> Unsubscribe at <majordomo@seds.org>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-- APML Archives at <http://astro.umsystem.edu/apml/> ---
> > > > Unsubscribe at <majordomo@seds.org>
> > > >
> > >
> > > -- APML Archives at <http://astro.umsystem.edu/apml/> ---
> > > Unsubscribe at <majordomo@seds.org>
> >
> > --
> > Matt BenDaniel
> > http://starmatt.com
> >
> > -- APML Archives at <http://astro.umsystem.edu/apml/> ---
> > Unsubscribe at <majordomo@seds.org>
>
>
>
>
>-- APML Archives at <http://astro.umsystem.edu/apml/> ---
> Unsubscribe at <majordomo@seds.org>
Astrophotography, Tips and Techniques
for Digital Enhancement in Photoshop:
http://www.astropix.com
-- APML Archives at <http://astro.umsystem.edu/apml/> ---
Unsubscribe at <majordomo@seds.org>